Spelling (and Why Don't People Read The *** T/C?)
June 9th 2007 08:35
I'm not like some in that I tolerate bad spelling online provided the person doing the bad spelling is having a fair go. What I dislike online is when communities end up like plum pudding with little bits and pieces of plum here and there that get stuck to itself, i.e. the community develops microcommunities.
The problem with that is, well I just dislike it when one portion of an online community unkowingly turns into its own community within the larger community.
So this is a poke of both frustration, irony and bad spelling.
Can you tell me whats wrong with the following picture?
... bleh. I've decided to turn this into my official rant against Orbles little 'look at me, I'm so precious' members - you know who you are, if you don't, don't bother asking, because I don't know who you are; )
You Don't Own What You Write on Orble Or did you not read the fucking fine print?
Paragraph nine,
Rephrase for those who can't be bothered reading:
If you think you're so precious, that what you do is so grand, why not, just why not try and apply for a real writing position, one that actually likes the idea of you having some real credentials, not just the empty baggage of 'oh yeah, I got a creative writing degree... somewhere'.
The problem with that is, well I just dislike it when one portion of an online community unkowingly turns into its own community within the larger community.
So this is a poke of both frustration, irony and bad spelling.
Can you tell me whats wrong with the following picture?
... bleh. I've decided to turn this into my official rant against Orbles little 'look at me, I'm so precious' members - you know who you are, if you don't, don't bother asking, because I don't know who you are; )
You Don't Own What You Write on Orble Or did you not read the fucking fine print?
Paragraph nine,
You agree that On Topic Media owns the blogs you write on, any associated domain names, as well as the content you produce. We're fine with you using that content in other areas, as long as they don't negatively affect On Topic Media in any way. Likewise, we're fine with you using your talents in any way you see fit, so long as those don't negatively affect On Topic Media. You can write for other publications, you can even write for competing blogging networks, so long as those activities don't affect our bottom line, or your blogging for us.
Rephrase for those who can't be bothered reading:
Orble owns your blog, your domain, your writing, your 'creative writing' degree branded ass, it owns it all
If you think you're so precious, that what you do is so grand, why not, just why not try and apply for a real writing position, one that actually likes the idea of you having some real credentials, not just the empty baggage of 'oh yeah, I got a creative writing degree... somewhere'.
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Comment by charliesgirl_992000
Histeries, Mysteries and what not
Lifes little slices
Mystical Creativity
in this, i know Hear, is the wrong hear. it's suppose to be "Here". and maybe Orblears, should be Orblers. <shrugs>
Tammy
Comment by Damo
For the Sake of Argument
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Comment by Ahmed
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Not sure about 'orblear', seems to be a throw up of 'cavalier'...
Comment by Tracy
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Comment by charliesgirl_992000
Histeries, Mysteries and what not
Lifes little slices
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Tammy
Comment by David
Just a few points on Paragraph Nine.
A lot of my work on Orble has already been published or produced elsewhere, and is already owned either by myself (my own publications) or by someone else (a film production company, a film producer, investors, Government financing corporations, a print publisher, a newspaper or a magazine).
Orble owns the domain name and the Blog itself but Orble does not and cannot own my (already pre-owned) text, nor the exclusive rights to it.
Ultrafilms, the SAFC (South Australian Film Corporation), Vertigo Productions, Palace Cinemas, the FFC (Australian Film FInance Company), SBS, and various other investors own the rights to one of my films. I signed my rights over to them in order to get it produced. The head of the International Film School in Sydney owns the exclusive rights to another of my films, because I signed the rights over to him.
I publish certain works before placing them on Orble, for that precise reason.
I am not plucking this information out of the air, either. Due to the convoluted nature (and length) of film and literary contracts, I have had to spend time with contract lawyers and copyright lawyers in order to ascertain my own moral rights in relation to my own "intellectual property". And I'm referring to contracts independent of Orble's 'I agree to the terms and conditons' agreement.
As to the instant and disposable, garbage and rubbish I post on Orble? Orble are welcome to own it. I have no intentions of publishing it elsewhere. Professional print publishers and film producers wouldn't be interested in it. They would style it Vanity Publishing.
One thing a lot of Bloggers don't realise is that a creative writing degree from 'anywhere' makes true industry professionals take notice of your work, and publish and produce it. If 'someone' was to approach Rolf de Heer (possibly Australia's greatest independent film-maker, and certainly its most prolific, and most awarded [Bad Boy Bubby, 10 Canoes, Dance Me to My Song, etc.) and say, "Hey Rolf, I Blog about writing but haven't studied how to write films 'anywhere' because I don't think I need to. I already know all there is to know about screenwriting, and writing itself." I don't think Rolf would sit down with you for a few hours, discuss your non-existent works-in-progress, spend a couple of years developing your non-existent talent, or climb on board as Executive Producer of something you hadn't written.
Bloggers can write all they like about spelling mistakes. It's the mistakes they make in assuming things, and making presumptions and snide insinuations that bothers me more.
I don't write about technical matters because I don't know enough about them.
I'd only expose my ignorance and put it on display for others to see.
I write about writing. It's my profession, not my hobby.
It's one of the reasons I went to study creative writing. To learn about the mechanics of the film and literature industries, not just how to write creatively.
It's been a great aid. It prevents me from writing something as ludicrous as this:
My professional writing colleagues and peers would laugh me to scorn.
David ...
Comment by Lilla
Enviro Warrior
An Extra Ordinary Life
Dream Herald
*stretch, Yawn*
I just signed on and find you are at the top of the charts, with a banner bearing my name?
I've made another cuppa and re-read your rant... but I still can't understand what you are complaining about, sorry, I'm a bit fuzzy in the head this morning...
Can you spell it out for the dummies amongst us...?
What's T/C mean?
Thanks,
Lilla ...
Comment by Damo
For the Sake of Argument
My Apologetics
Sometimes in your moments of rare sanity you are very clever.
Comment by yoda76
The Tube Blog
You're not exactly innocent of this yourself, take your comment on this very post:
Yes it is their choice to write whatever, however. Don't like it - move along.
I'm not a fan of navelgazers - but they're (look another spelling of that word!) entitled to gaze as long as they see fit, without someone telling them that their navel is the wrong shape.
Comment by Tracy
Movies and Life
You added the second part of your post re: You Don't Own What You Write on Orble after I wrote my response.
I really don't understand how the two are related other than you exposing your contempt for sub-cultures on Orble. Forming friendships are a normal part of life and will inevitably happen in a blogging community.
Tracy
Comment by jon
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Thanks,
Jon.
Comment by Ahmed
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Lilla, I'm just pointlessly ranting, I don't see how spelling is that big a deal so I suppose it goes beyond that.
Tracy, sorry, no clue what you mean, it's 12pm right now and I just actually woke up (yep, one heck of a sleep in).
David, you might be surprised to know but I have a good understanding of the way the movie industry works, I know just because you've signed off your work to some producer doesn't mean the movie will get produced nor is it a testament to your writing abilities.
The movie industry is incredibly shallow, it can't tell the difference between a master piece and a piece of crap, you could write the greatest script in the world and no one would take two looks at it, you could write a piece of crap soap opera meets western and it could just end up on the drawing board, though usually doesn't get very much farther than that.
Comment by yoda76
The Tube Blog
If you're gonna rant for the shit of it - don't hassle others here on Orble - I don't see any benefit in that, for you or anyone else.
If it ain't about spelling, don't make it about spelling, or people will think it's about spelling.
Comment by Ahmed
techy.Bytes
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Comment by yoda76
The Tube Blog
Comment by Ahmed
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Comment by Ash
Australian Traveller
Flashes of memories
Seeing as this is actually my banner, which by the way I never gave you permission to use, I thought it only right to make a comment on it.
What I write on my posts is entirely up to me. Sometime`s it is not about the spelling but about the meaning behind it.... which is what my banner is about. You do not need to be a regular reader of my blog to get the meaning on this... it`s quite self-explanatory.
As David has said I do not write anything on Orble that I intend to publish... it`s just rants and raves... if I wanted to publish it I would spend my time sending manuscripts to Publishing Houses. I don`t even have a Creative Writing Degree.
You appear to be backtracking on the whole spelling thing... yet your title states clearly SPELLING and...
... I may be a little dumb please explain this to me? I do not quite know where you are going with your rant and why you would use my banner, which was actually borne from something two very nice people had said, but I would appreciate it in future if you would keep my blog out of your rants.
And while I am on my soap box I would just like to say that the little micro-community that has been speculated on is absolute bull. People have formed 'relationships' over the months where they encourage each other, share experiences.. whatever.... isn`t that what being a community is all about? vitual or otherwise?
As for your reference to
if you have a problem with the blogs on Orble Ahmed then why don`t you just move to another blogging site? No one has to stay here and no one has to read anyone else`s blogs. If you don`t like the content then click off it... simple as that.
ash
Comment by Ahmed
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I believe my response to you by way of PM will suffice since I take it you didn't read the message and I loath re-writing everything.
My English teacher probably put it best when she said that 'it doesn't take a spelling test to be an English teacher', I can assure you that I have nothing against poor spelling (I am probably the biggest culprit of bad spelling).
I'll tell you the truth, I have a high school english degree and I passed with a modest score, so I am in no position to critique peoples work objectively, rather I do so passively - based on opinion. Spelling is, however, a non-issue for me though in reality it is a big issue for some other people despite what they would want to say.
The point of the post was to highlight this, people online take spelling too seriously, it is quite evident by the attention the post recieved. I don't see how there can be a point of contention here.
The fact I based it on your banner has more to do with trying to stir up the attention, as was the comments on the micro community. Bad spelling initself won't gain attention unless it is relevent to some point or context people are interested in.
Afterwards I added more to the post, stuff about the terms and conditions, I was trying to stire up that controversy furthermore, obviously I pushed it too far since it got moved to the writers forum.
In the end I don't care much for spelling, I'm sure I've made quite a few in this very same PM, and even if I did I don't see why you should at all care about my opinion on your spelling given I have little to no comparison with you.
And for what isn't covered in that PM (since you never wrote me on those details).
Neither do I, I don't see the point here.
While I did cover the following in my PM I would like to make myself clearer on my stance,
I understand that you form friendships and whatnot, but I also can tell the difference between pansy wansy 'omg you're such a lovely writer' bullshit, which I see a lot of. This has created an elitistic system, on Orble.
I have seen it first hand, how some seem to be shunned out of this little group by the proverbial overlord of the group simply because these people who are essentially kicked out of this little group don't partake in exaggerated displays of affection for said overlord.
No, not simple as that, if I were to up and run instead of stand my ground and at least attempt to fix what I view as flaws then where would my resolve and integrity be? I could just say 'bleh, I hate orble' and run off though I choose to stay, despite having another blog on another network that gets more unique hits than the top 10 Orble blogs combined, I have the integrity to stay and act on my complaints.
Which of all ironies isn't really teh case with the spelling (read my PM so you can understand).
Comment by DuskDevi
Rucks and Rolls
Rugby World Cup 2007
It has been deliberately written like that by Ash, the moderator of the blog you stole the banner from, because of something we joked about on one of her posts.
Something that Lilla started and that I 'finished'.
What's wrong Ahmed? The other children don't want to play with you?
Oh diddums...well, if you put the vitriol and the jealousy and the bitterness and the inferiority complex and the lack of power frustration, away...you might just have a chance of being a Real Person.
So young and such a waste of youth...spending your time crying your little baby butt about what others do instead of focusing of what you haven't done...
Cultivated a personality.
And yes you better believe I'm precious Ahmed.
I have a lot of reason to be.
Comment by DuskDevi
Rucks and Rolls
Rugby World Cup 2007
Attention.
Good ploy Ahmed.
You'd make a great teenage girl.
Comment by Ash
Australian Traveller
Flashes of memories
Sorry Ahmed I don`t get where you are going with everything - none of it makes sense to me, however you are entitled to your opinion. It is sad that you have such thoughts of some people on Orble and all I request is that in future when you express your views you leave my content out for your examples.
Comment by Ahmed
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You've lost me there.
Anyway, I didn't 'steal' it, 'stealing' would imply I took something without permission, what has happened here is more akin to looking at a picture and then showing it to other people, is the banner still on the blog? yes? Then what could I have possibly stolen.
You know, I could reply to everything else you've written though you have done a great job of proving the point of the post.
On the topic of stealing and taking without permission, I feel that I have to address this.
I don't see anything special about the banner, anyone could make something like it, everyone here who claims I am 'stealing' the damned thing needs to have a reality check, if I took a photograph of you would i be stealing you? In the digital age whatever you put online you put online, it's open. hence the simple rule is that it isn't stealing if I'm not profiting from it and you're not losing from my 'taking' the image.
Theres about a hundred and one examples that come to mind though all comparisons are mute in that you don't own the banner, all content hosted on the orble servers there were created by its members belong to a specific company, not the creator of the content.
Furthermore I'm pretty sure the entire concept of blogging falls under the creative commons license in that you don't really own anything you put online, you don't have an official title to claim anything as your own. I recall a woman tried suing archive.org on similar premise that duplicating some of the content on her site was essentially 'stealing', that fell through in the courts, not to mention common sense.
Now, if I am indeed 'stealing' that image then by all means, go ahead and sue me. You know as well as me it won't hold, it can't hold, not legally and not even logically taht duplicating an image means I'm stealing it. Everytime someone goes to your blog that image is duplicated and put on the Browsers cache, so everyone who visits your blog is, by your manner of logic, a criminal.
Perhaps, just perhaps, you should look at your proverbial boss, I don't mean to bring the past back to light and I have no intention to, though what has happened before is happening again, elitism is taking over the community once more.
I will bring you into it because as far as I'm concerned part of the problem is having a community centered around the few, it isn't a community if we start grouping and having the community reflect upon these groups. I'm also tired of seeing put downs going on between members, there is a 'if you don't praise my work without reservation then you are untalented and pathetic, I don't want you to be part of my community, I dont' like you' mantra going on.
You might not see it simply because you are part of the 'I love your writing without reservation' group.
Comment by yoda76
The Tube Blog
Ahmed, mate, take a step back - it's no different to what you're doing here. You didn't get the pun in the banner (admittedly I missed it, too), and now you're harassing other writers on Orble. It's really not necessary.
and this:
just comes across a little infantile, mate.
Come on - you're better than this.
Comment by Tracy
Movies and Life
This post doesn't make sense to me, but does seem spiteful. People are entitled to have whatever they want on their banners, it doesn't mean others are excluded.
Friendships form in the Orble world as they would in any community and that's part of the essence of blogging...the interaction and the fun....
Tracy
Comment by Ahmed
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Ok, so I didn't get it (rather just missed it
The issue here isn't spelling, I think while spelling is still a bit of an issue (kind of funny when you think about it) the real problem is bullying and elitism. I'd bring up examples, but they would be redundant on account of it doesn't concern the members who seem to think I'm taking a stab at their spelling or integrity (which I'm not) though it relates to them. Bringing up examples may create the wrong impression. Also, I'm sure *they* know exactly what I'm referring to, making it even more futile to bring up said examples.
Come on - you're better than this.
Well I dunno, I've never been accused of 'stealing' an image online, that reasoning is flawed on so many levels I don't even know where to begin.
This isn't about banners, bleh (well in reality this is more about how mishmashing subjects can make things messy).
This started off with a simple playful jest at how seriously pepole seem to take spelling errors online, and yes, it was a complete success in that regard, I quote my PM to ash,
However even after humbling myself and saying 'look, I'm in no position to insult anyone on anything and god strike me down if I think I am, my opinion means nought but two pences and maybe a shiny dime'. Thats basically what you say when a joke, or at least something without crude intentions is mistaken, which was the case. It worked, I mean, it worked too well, if I knew Ash would take it so personally that even after reassuring her I was not taking a jab at her but merely trying to make a very generalized point about attitudes towards spelling on the Internet I probably wouldn't have bothered explaining it to her at all.
She insists that I hate her guts, that I'm poking at her integrity, well I can't do anything about that, my original PM stands as my position on said banner.
Now, as for the real bone, elitism on Orble, this is the second significant time a certain someone whos ego is too big for gods green earth has taken it upon himself to personally go and put down other people, of course I say significant, it's happened in between severel times with minor cases here and there. Anyone who does not join his little group of (dare I say?) minions who say nothing but how 'great' a writer he is gets the hard end of the stick from him. Like he is an authority to claim someone esles writing is inferior in such a rude way so as to imply that he's the god of writing, like a new age god-like Shakespeare. Maybe he is, but if he is then Shakespeare was one hell of a jerk.
Comment by James Rickard
unlucky_ fishermen.com
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Comment by Julie Vaux
Books Well Read
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Going back to the original post of Ahmed's
Spelling.
I know why I do typos sometimes and unfortunately there's a valid physiological and medical explanation about which I'll only say,,, nothing.
Micro-communities.
I actually think that Ahmed was trying to point out is that some of the "micro communities" and "groups of friends" on Orble including one particular one tend to behave like cliques towards other users, especially towards newbies.
Ahmed did make some valid points.
There's always room for improvement in one's blogging format, style, and writing methods!
I just wish it was possible to discuss technique without people's egos getting in the way.
Comment by Cibbuano
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use Firefox 2.0 instead of Internet Explorer. It's got built-in spell checking!
Comment by Ahmed
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Cibbuano, but IE7 looks so much more slicker than Firefox 2.0.
Comment by yoda76
The Tube Blog
I hope that's a joke, Mr Anti-Mac.
Comment by Ahmed
techy.Bytes
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Look at them for yourself: Really Long Link
Really Long Link
Comment by yoda76
The Tube Blog
Comment by Ahmed
techy.Bytes
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Sad state of affairs when you're Bill Gates, people steal your ideas and it's fine (since you set industry standards), you try other peoples stuff and you're a copy cat.
Comment by yoda76
The Tube Blog
Damn straight. If you're a trend-setter, set trends. Don't rip 'em off...
Comment by Kleonaptra
Kalikapsychosis
The only blogger Ive met on Orble who believes himself to be above others is you. Everywhere I go there you are, raving about your controversial subjects and 10 000 hits. You really dont need us to be popular, so why do you care?
Thankyou Dusk. Some sanity amoungst the madness?
Poor Ahmed, if you only graduated moderate english Im not surprised you missed the brilliant pun. It really is quite a darling and sweet thing that Ash is trying to say about the orble community, Im really sorry you couldnt enjoy it with the rest of us.
And I strongly suggest not singling people out like that - Youve got an issue about communities within communities, great, love to hear it, but to single out a warm sweet girl and take something that means so much to her regular readers is just wrong. If you are not a regular reader of any blog then there is bound to be a lot about it you dont get.
Im very disappionted in all of this. It was very unnessesary. And I dont give a damn if I cant spell, no mater what the rest of the www thinks!
Comment by Ahmed
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still waiting for Steve Jobs to copy Bill gates charity
Kleonpatra, you're right, I do think I am 'better' than most others on Orble, but not for the reasons you may think. I'm better in the sense I wasn't introduced to blogging via orble, I knew about it long before, I'm better in the sense I know what blogging is from years (yeah, literally, years) of reading them.
If I did care just about myself and had something against other people getting more hits than me then I probably wouldn't be submitting orble blogs to digg.com, yes the seame site that give syou something in the tune of over 25,000 hits within a day.
My main anger, is against the micro community, yes, why? Because of the top 20 posts. Why because of the top 20? Because I don't like the content on the top 20. Why don't I? Because they are cenetered around this community, they have no generel credibility or entertainment value, it's just the same top 20 over and over again. Thats probably my main angst against Orble.
I know you, and certain other peopel won't like it, because you and certain other people get traffic spikes from getting to the top 20. In my case, well my traffic is more dependent on how many people are looking for 'emos kissing' on google images
I have the communities interests at heart, I probably suport orble more than most others in that I don't just post to my blog regularly or comment on other blogs regularly, I actively advertise other peoples blogs by way of digg.com. This is just a small extra I contribute however it is an example of how 'jealous' I can be.
If you look at my most recent posts on my blogs you'll see I don't submit much from those to digg, however other blogs I do. I like the idea of showing great content, produced by great writers, or people who can find great content.
Thats the heart of blogging, content, not 'why I fucked some woman' or 'I went to the beach today', no, thats bullshit, thast what you put on a personal journal, stuff like that doesn't get attention, it doesn't go to the front page on Digg and generete thousands of hits for the same reason I dislike them, they just arne't interesting except to the few sappy 'I love you, you love me' members on orble.
But like I said, if I so wanted to get more hits than everyone else I could just stop submitting other peoples content to digg, I could stop getting excited when an Orble blog is on digg.com/upcoming (yes, I'm that obsessed I actually look there). I like it, I get a rush out of seeing someone, usually someone no one has heard of, getting to the front apge on digg and being what is essentially a top-tier journalist for 24 hours. If I was just up myself and didn't like nobody but myself, I wouldn't do that, more importantly, I wouldn't be on Orble,because like I said, if it's about the hit count I get, well I don't get many hits on orble, I get about 20 to 30 times more on my other blog, I'd just stick to that one. I only bring this point up because people think I'm actually jealous or something about other peoples hit counts, I sure would be, if I cared.
But I don't, because unlike you, or anyone else, I like Orble because of the entirity of Orble, not because theres someone who writes what is essentially a personal diary with little to no meaning unless you are friends with them. I mean, every post I see that comes on orble I look at, I don't read them all but I look at pretty much all of them because I like reading them.
I'm not like david who himself says he doesn't like reading the 'shit' on Orble, I do, because I don't have a superioirty complex, I like to read because I know that other person has put in as muchlove and effort into his/her writing as I do (probably more).
Comment by Kleonaptra
Kalikapsychosis
Ive heard you have this argument before. When I first wanted to learn about blogging I looked up the definition and it was 'online diary entry' the little diary entries that some people do are mostly just fuzz while they clear their heads to get out some really good stuff. Everyone guilty of diary entries is also capable of unbelievable writing. I was trying to get some coverage for my poetry and short stories, turns out Ive only posted one short story as blogging changes your writing style. I know there are plenty of animal lovers out there who are interested in my animal stories.
It seems your problem is more with Orbles content. With the variety of writers we have its bound to happen and in my experience the top 20 is not overly dominated by any specific group. I often search orble and support newbies (scholia, above, included) one of my faves is 'a la solo' and I vote to get them onto the pages where they might be read by others. I dont understand 'digg' but Im sure I'll work it out, Id get a kick out of supporting someone I like that way too.
I think the major problem here is that you seem to think this 'micro community' has been formed yet I dont see it. I have my favourite writers but when I have time I vote and comment on lots of people. You also seem to think we care about traffic -
I know you, and certain other peopel won't like it, because you and certain other people get traffic spikes from getting to the top 20.
But for the most part, I dont. I only care about expressing myself, honestly, writing something I care about.
If its Orble itself you are actually worried about I realy dont see why. We have a massive variety of topics and if you want a more professional setting perhaps this isnt the place for it. Most of us are here for fun and I think that really shows. Im all for advertising more sites any way we can because there are so many talented people here.
they have no generel credibility or entertainment value
Obviously someone thinks so....Speak for yourself, dont say 'everyone' if its just not true.
I like to read because I know that other person has put in as muchlove and effort into his/her writing as I do (probably more).
In that, we are in complete agreement. All of us here on Orble do the above, wether its 'interesting' to everyone or not.
Comment by yoda76
The Tube Blog
Touché.
Although, there are a lot of people with a lot of money that don't advertise their charity. They do it for the charity, not the publicity. Not saying Jobs is one of them, but just because we haven' heard about it, don't mean it doesn't happen.