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Writers Forum - November 2006

Feedback on new homepage

November 22nd 2006 21:23
Preview of initial text -- this is a beautiful thing.

I also reckon the "Only show posts with at least" defaulting to 10 is a clever idea... Cibby wanted the popular posts to be more prominent. Well, the default of 10 goes some way towards showcasing better posts (or more Orble-involved writers, at any rate), and gives posts a longer time period on the front page...

Was initially thinking a default to 10 might be a touch unfair... what do people reckon? Can't be too hard for you to score ten votes, if you simply comment on a few other people's posts...
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Comment by Jimbo

November 22nd 2006 23:06


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I think it's unfair for 10 to be the default, because unless your Karma is actually ten - and only a small proportion of Orblers have a karma of 10 - then it is unlikely anyone is going to see your post until someone comments on it first, which sort of defeats the whole purpose.

Comment by Brenton

November 23rd 2006 00:06


Dr Spin
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I don't mind it...

Comment by Adrian

November 23rd 2006 03:02


Philosophy Blog
Jimbo, I think that's the main reason anyone would think it unfair.

But the odds are, if you simply leave a comment on one of the karma 10 blogs, they'll probably leave one in return...

Comment by jon

November 23rd 2006 03:31


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The reason I set it to 10 was as Adrian suggests because people wanted new readers to see good posts on the homepage.

It is very easy for experienced users to lower the threshold but not so easy for new users to raise it.

It's always going to be a trade-off between giving everyone exposure and quality of content.

Although I can see Jimbo's argument as well. If you have a Karma of 8,9,10 you could reasonably expect your post to appear above any default threshold as soon as it's published based on the fact that you have published good posts before.

Maybe I'll lower it to 8? Thoughts?

Comment by TonyK

November 23rd 2006 06:05


AFL Central
I think its fair as is. I mean my karma is 7 atm and as soon as someone comments on it its obviously going to jump above 10 anyways. So I think leaving it the way it is would be the best option

Comment by Adrian

November 23rd 2006 06:36


Philosophy Blog
Another option is to raise it to 11, so that no one gets an automatic free ride.

Comment by Ahmed

November 23rd 2006 11:00


techy.Bytes
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It isn't a free ride though, it is something you earn through hard work.

Free ride is if you dont earn the Karma which isn't happening.


I think it is too easy reaching 10, erm, dunno, shouldn't sound like I'm complaining, but yeah...

Comment by Jimbo

November 23rd 2006 11:04


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I think lower it to 8 so i fit in .

My point is, only a small proportion of Orble writers are able to reach a Karma of 10 - not because of hard work but because that is the way that Jon designed the system. Sure, it takes hard work to get the Karma, but that is because there is only a certain percentage of writers that are able to get that karma. I think some compromise has to be made - possibly 6 or 7, because that seems to be the threshold that separates those that attempt to keep the Orble community alive, and those that don't really participate as much.

Comment by Ahmed

November 23rd 2006 11:07


techy.Bytes
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The percentage makes it all relative to other members.

If I put in 2 hours a day to get to 10/10, then someone else might be putting in half that to get 5/10. If that guy doubles his efforts then the percentage drops, and heck, maybe my karma goes down to 9/10, like his goes up to 9/10, because overall the activity has risen hence gaining rep has gotten harder.

It's all in the algortihm, I hae no idea how it works, but I knowt he jist of it, sounds quite fair, only problem is that there are a lot of inactive blogs that makes getting karma really easy.


Oh and I like it that hte popular posts are not so prominant on the main page, looks nicer, and discourages people to try cheap tricks to get attention to begin wtih (in a way)

Comment by Jimbo

November 23rd 2006 11:15


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All I know is that no matter whether I try hard or not on visiting and commenting other blogs, my karma remains a steady 8.

By the way, now that the Orble logo has changed, can we change the Writers Forum banner? Its really ugly. No offense or anything ;P.

Comment by Ahmed

November 23rd 2006 11:20


techy.Bytes
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Well I dunno, maybe not enough people are visiting your own blog?

Post something crazily whacky and get lots of comments, that'll help

Comment by Jimbo

November 23rd 2006 11:25


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Check the stats! I am consistently the most hit blog in the Orble network, with the highest number of daily individual readers. But for some reason, music is not the best topic to get comments for, unless they're negative. As for whacky posts - popular posts on Orble tend to be quite introverted, about Orble itself and how to be successful in blogging, and I don't really want to submit to that sort of post-writing simply for the sake of popularity. I would rather a mix of internal readers (for the community feel) and external readers (for ad-clicks, and genuine interest). Both can be attained from the Orble homepage - however I'm not too sure whether external readers actually know there is a homepage.

Comment by Ahmed

November 23rd 2006 11:33


techy.Bytes
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Well Karma only takes a set percentage from your hits, you need comments for your posts, as well as comments you make around the place.

So you will have to find a work around in that case, get comments or die.

How about a 'whats your fave music' post or something like that?

Comment by Jimbo

November 23rd 2006 11:43


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Enough blogs in and outside Orble are doing that - I want to keep an informational side to my blog while at the same time keeping it a blog. It's a hard world for music writing - a fact I have to deal with. I'm clearly not going to die anytime soon. I just have to keep up my hard work at posting and commenting on others and hope they do the same. I'm not really in it for network-centric fame.

Comment by Ahmed

November 23rd 2006 11:45


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Well there you go then, I guess you'll have to sacrifice for it...

Comment by jon

November 23rd 2006 22:59


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So what I'm currently thinking about is changing the initial number of votes a new post gets from being equal to the writer's Karma to being Karma*5 and then set the default threshold to 30-40.

That way a writer's reputation will be just as important as the number of comments/votes a post gets whereas at the moment it actaully counts for very little in the long run.

Thoughts? Maybe * 5 is too much?

Comment by Jimbo

November 23rd 2006 23:07


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Interesting proposition... It puts everyone on a level playing field, but then again 1000 people on a level playing field is quite crowded. I'm not too sure about, but I understand it's a difficult thing to grasp on. If that's what it becomes, then that's cool, but I'm not too sure how I feel about it.

Comment by Ahmed

November 23rd 2006 23:16


techy.Bytes
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I like that idea Jon, I'm not a fan of inflating points but if that is what it takes, then so be it.

Comment by Adrian

November 23rd 2006 23:24


Philosophy Blog
Hey Jon, I actually don't like that idea very much. For two reasons:

-- I think it's unnecessarily complicated (instead of multiplying karma by 5 and dropping minimum-post-vote-to-display-in-the-recent-post-list-under-default-settings to 30-40, why not simply drop the minumum votes you need to 6)
-- I think it makes it even harder for people at the lower end to climb the scale. Currently, someone with a karma of 1 would need 9 votes to get their post displayed. Under your proposed model, they'd need 25 votes.

The way I see it, the main point of your model is to make reputation even more valuable than it currently is. And I'm just not sure that's the way to go...

Comment by Eric

November 25th 2006 00:13


Mal Gadget
I'm a little confused. From what I see... new posts by new bloggers will be buried in it's category until it is voted out into the front page or parent category? Does this mean I have to click one category, and then click to the sub category to get new stories?

I like the setup, but there should be a shortcut of some kind to the newly submitted stories that haven't yet made it to the homepage. Or at least a tag cloud for search the latest posts on a particular tag.


Comment by Ahmed

November 25th 2006 00:17


techy.Bytes
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I propose a Digg system (just came to mind).

We have an 'upcoming' post page where all the newposts are put, and they can be commented on and voted on, if they get above a certain threshold (say 10 to 15) then when they graduate they get put on the front page.


Comment by jon

November 25th 2006 02:30


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I think there are two issues here. How important should comments and/or votes be in relation to Karma? and what should the default threshold on the homepage be?

How many comments do you think a Post should have before it is considered as good as a Post by someone with a Karma of 10? I don't like judging Posts as good or bad but it's necessary.

I think the threshold should probably be set by the number of posts that appear above it on the front page during one day. I think anymore than 30 new posts a day would probably be too much for your average reader. Also, any more than that and each Post is getting so little exposure it's not really worth being on the front page by default anyway.

All posts appear on the front page if you lower the threshold to 1 which is effectively like Digg's new post section or if you raise the threshold a bit more - like the upcoming section. Simple and effective.

I also like the idea of a tag-cloud. We could do some interesting things there.

Comment by Jimbo

November 25th 2006 03:57


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Yeah Jon, I understand what you're saying. Taking into account the idea of making a threshold that limits the number of posts to 30 a day, what would that threshold be?

Comment by Bhumika

November 26th 2006 04:07


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looks good..i like the background color..blue is my favourite

Comment by Cibbuano

November 26th 2006 23:17


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I think the threshold should be higher, like 30 or 40. If I want to see new posts, I'll go to find them, but I think visitors to the Orble homepage want to see where all the action is!

How about a link that says 'new posts'?


Comment by Ahmed

November 26th 2006 23:19


techy.Bytes
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Yeah, that could be like the 'upcoming' page you get on Digg.

Comment by jon

November 26th 2006 23:29


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Jimbo -- after doing a quick count -- there were 43 posts above the 10 threshold in the last 24 hours and 31 above the 20 threshold.

Taking into account that most of the last 24 hours were a Sunday which usually has about half the number of posts as a weekday, then I would guess that the default threshold should probably be around 30 to acheive the 30 posts a day target.

Comment by Jimbo

November 26th 2006 23:32


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Ok that seems pretty fair. I would go with Cibby's idea then.

Comment by jon

November 26th 2006 23:32


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Good idea with the New posts link Cibby..

Comment by Vixter

December 4th 2006 12:26


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my only concern about a default to 10 , is howdo ppl get a readershiip up if people never see the on the popular page, I know it is about sharing and share alike...you know if someone writes to you write back...but for newbies it might take a bit more to cotton on...I used to get a kick out of seeing my posts on the front page for that split second.

It is true that pl want to see where the action is - SO - to go back on what i said if they are keen they will stick it out.


Comment by Brenton

December 4th 2006 13:27


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Mmmm.... yeah, righto. Works for me.

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